A Defiant Megan Kelly and Charlie Kirk Asserted their Independence from Israel
Charlie Kirk agreed with Megan Kelley's refusal to be cowed by "repulsive" "nastiness" including charges of Anti-Semitism. Kirk asserted right to host debate disavowing AIPAC and foreign aid to Israel
Summary
[Note: individual video clips are listed below this summary]
On August 6, 2025, in Charlie Kirk’s last appearance on the Megyn Kelley Show before his assassination, Megan Kelly and Charlie Kirk chose to align themselves with Tucker Carlson, striking a posture of defiance against Pro-Israeli pressure, saying that they would not be cowed by phony charges of Anti-Semitism, hostile reactions, and being treated like the “enemy” of Israel. They claimed the right as Americans to question and critique an ally without being labeled “disloyal”.1 They also agreed that Israel had “made itself the villain of the world,” and had lost both Democrats and now many Republicans. When you consider Charlie’s influence over Israel’s last sizable remaining pocket of political, economic, and military support, is it unreasonable to suggest that this video could count as evidence of motive for Charlie Kirk’s assassination?
End the War in Gaza: We Should “Wrap it up”
Megyn Kelly quoted President Trump’s prior comments that it is time for Israel to “wrap it up” [meaning wrap up the war in Gaza],2 something Israel likely does not want to do before they, at minimum, completely expel Palestinians from Gaza.
They argued that Israeli PR has been abysmal, and it shouldn’t fall on them to do the heavy lifting that a Karoline Leavitt-type official3 should be performing every day?4
Debate: Agreed to End Foreign Aid to Israel & Both Anti-AIPAC
Charlie Kirk also claimed the right to moderate debates in which both participants aren’t Pro-Israel, such as a recent debate that involved David Smith, a Jewish critic of Israel, and Josh Hammer a Pro-Israel American.5
It is important to note, in this debate both participants agreed that the US should wind down not just war funding, but all aid to Israel and the crowd of young Republicans cheered this, something I imagine many Israel-supporters would have found very threatening. They also debated whether Israel is an ally of the US, whether the US should force AIPAC to register as a foreign agent, and whether either were fans of AIPAC, all which posed major threats to Pro-Israeli interests in avoiding exposing young Republicans to critical perspectives.
Video: Both debaters were opposed to AIPAC and US foreign aid to Israel
ChatGTP Key takeaways
Free-speech vs. “antisemitism” charge: Both argue you should be able to speculate about Epstein’s alleged ties (incl. Mossad) and criticize Israeli policy without being labeled antisemitic. (I assume this argument was threatening to both US and Israeli officials)
“America first” framing: They stress their identity as Americans who can question allies; criticism ≠ disloyalty. (This goes against the current hasbara strategy of demanding unquestioning obedience, lest critics be called an “Anti-Semite.”)
Israel “losing support” narrative: They say Israel has “made itself the villain” by letting the war drag on, eroding support among U.S. friends and parties; citing poll drops in support from late-2023 to mid-2024 (largest decline among Democrats and under-35s). (I’m sure this doesn’t make Israel-supporters happy)
“Time to wrap it up”: Echoing Trump, they argue Israel has lost moral high ground and should end the campaign soon to preserve standing. (This is a direct threat to the Israeli hope that they can expel the Gazans and possibly also those living in the West Bank)
Backlash hardens their stance: Personal attacks (“you’re doing Hamas’ bidding”) make them double down rather than retreat; they reject purity tests from pro-Israel allies. (Perhaps these “so-called allies” need a harsher stick to intimidate everyone)
Media/PR critique: They say Israeli government PR is “abysmal”—no daily briefings, poor rapid-rebuttal; this cedes the “propaganda war” to Hamas and leaves media figures to “do the heavy lifting.” (Maybe the policy is wrong, not the PR?)
Debate gatekeeping claim: They complain that pro-Israel stakeholders resist real debate formats and punish platforms that host critical voices (e.g., Dave Smith, Tucker Carlson). (The way the Dave Smith debate, which Charlie moderated, worked out was likely perceived as a disaster by Israel supporters. Can Israel policy actually be exposed to debate or must Israel shut debate down with cries of “Anti-Semitism”)6
Credibility line in the sand: Kelly asserts she won’t sacrifice editorial independence or host demanded “debates” on her show; support for Israel’s right to self-defense remains, but not unconditional alignment. (Will “bigger sticks” be needed to preserve hasbara)7
Notable lines (paraphrased)
“We can speculate about Epstein—criticizing Israel isn’t antisemitic.”8
“Israel’s let this go on so long it’s losing friends and moral standing—time to wrap it up.”
“The more you attack our character, the more we double down.”
“Israeli PR is failing; why aren’t there daily briefings and rapid fact checks?”
Megan told she can’t speculate whether Epstein was Mossad or criticize Israel without being called “Anti-Semitic” — I reject that!
I speculated about this at the turning point event whether the possibility of Jeffrey Epstein possibly being a Mossad agent or asset or affiliated with that's been turned around on me too to you must be anti-semitic What the hell? That's such The same people who say you can criticize Israel, that's fine. We won't call you anti-semitic if you criticize Israel now turn around immediately and say you're anti-Semitic for even raising that. I completely reject that and I raised this to as a push back against my friends on that particular strain of the aisle to watch it because you don't want to alienate people who are openly your friends by going nuts in your crackdowns on mild push back on anything related to Israel. Now you take it. I'm so I'm I'm so glad you brought this up and I would second that, Megan
We’re Americans and we speculate and criticize if we want.
Well, has it gone on too long? Like, is it time to wrap it up? And the thing about Epstein is just so bizarre. I don't know who he was an agent for. It might have been Israel or an asset or it might have been nobody. But we're allowed to speculate about that. It's like there's some you can't go there when it comes to Israel. Well, you and I believe that we're Americans and Americans first. Period. End of story
It’s Israel’s fault they make themselves the villain of the world and lost friends.
And then Piers released at a as a separate clip my followup to that comment. Okay. And and here's that nuance, Megan. It's only um. Israel, whether it realizes it or not has made itself the villain of the world in in letting this thing go go on so long. They have lost support amongst their dearest friends. And even the entire Democrat party here in the United States has turned against them and they're losing Republicans by the day here in America which is their most important ally. So whether the fight continues to be just or not is almost irrelevant. As Trump said when he was running this time last year, not yet elected, time to wrap it up. And that's how I feel, too. And that's how I feel, too. And I've given Israel a long birth. I fully understand as an American who was attacked on 9/11, my country was that, you know, when you attack the United States and you kill thousands of our citizens, and Israel was in this position on 107, it's fine to respond. And it doesn't have to be proportionate. Whoever said it has to be proportionate. But what Israel is doing now is losing its standing with the rest of the world. It's starting to lose, too. Even with its closest friends, its moral reputation, its moral um high ground, and as Trump said a year ago, time to wrap it up.
Charlie: Well said.
It’s Time to Wrap the War Up. If you attack my character, I’ll double down. You can’t scold me into silence.
Megyn: But what Israel is doing now is losing its standing with the rest of the world. It's starting to lose, too. Even with its closest friends, its moral reputation, its moral um high ground, and as Trump said a year ago, time to wrap it up. The more you attack my moral character the more I'm going to double down. on some part of the population, you can scold them into silence, right?
Israel is losing the propaganda war. I’m sick of being lectured
You know, many Jewish uh advocates saying, "Let me come on your show and we'll debate." There's nothing to debate. I'm on Israel's side. Just stop me observing totally agree that you're losing the propaganda war and that this has gone on for about two years now. And look, I mean, I pulled the stats. Support for Israel's military action in Gaza by party ID. Uh GOP in June of 2024, 76%, now 71, so they lost 5%. Dems in October of 2023, 36%, now it's at 8. Independence, October of 2023, it was 47%. Now it's 25%. you go under 35, you have almost zero support across the United States, your closest ally. I I see what's happening and it's my job to comment honestly on it. But I am sick of being lectured on like you you have to see it exactly as we see it and support everything or you're you're against us.
Charlie: So So this is so important, Megan.
Charlie: You and I, Megan, and Tucker are in the same category. We will double down if you attack us
So this is so important, Megan. And again, I don't want not every you cannot say everyone in the pro-Israel and I don't say it acts that way, but I I got texts about you, Megan, saying, "Why is Megan like doing the bidding of Hamas?" I was like, "What are you talking about? Megan's the best." Like, "What? She's amazing." And I said, "Why are you texting me about Megan?" And I at that po And so this is what they don't understand. You and I, Megan, and Tucker is in the same category and they've tried to go after Tucker. Yeah. is that the and and the more you attack our moral character, the actually the more we're going to double down into direction because screw you. I don't do it that way. Okay? Right? Like when tell me I'm wrong. Cool. Tell me if I got my facts wrong. By the way, on the Epstein thing, Nav Tali Bennett says he was an Epstein agent. We have to be pursuers of truth. They've denied it. Fine. Let's keep digging. Okay. Fine. But the the the the thing that I don't think I think is being lost is like on some part of the population, you can scold them into silence, right? But if I have any deviation of a purity test, any deviation whatsoever, such as hosting a focus group, right, Megan, with a bunch of our students that went viral, having Dave Smith or Tucker at my event, it is all of a sudden, oh, Charlie is a uh he's he's no longer with us and all that. Say, wait a second. What do you mean? What does with us mean exactly?
Right. I'm an American. Okay. Like I I I represent this country and I I don't even understand that paradigm. But Megan, I think you would agree with this. I want to make sure we fast like really zero in on this personality types like you, myself, and Tucker. The more that you guys privately and publicly call our character into question, which is not isolated, right, Megan? It would be one thing if it was one text or two text. It is dozens of texts. Yes. Then we start to say, "Hold the boat here." And and to be fair, some of my really good Jewish friends are like, "That's not all of us. It's all But these are leaders, too, though, right? These are these are stakeholders, right? And so, look, I I'm I'm afraid because, again, I want civilization to win. I want the West to win. I don't want the Islamofascist barbarians to storm the gates of Jerusalem. I want the holy sites protected. I believe in the Holy Land.
The Pro-Israeli reaction is “hostile” and Megan and Charlie are treated like enemies
when the hostile reaction is that now Megan and Charlie are enemies, right? Boy, I'll tell you like you're you're you're you're you're going to you're not going to
I won’t sacrifice my credibility for Israel
My point is simply I have my honest opinions which is why I had credibility for the two years I've been defending them. Right? And I still have that credibility and I don't need lectures from my friends who are more pro-Israel than I am or who are just American Jewish people who are concerned about what's happening. I don't need lectures on my coverage. Okay? I'll call it like I see it. and you have no right to come on this show and demand a debate with me because I've said something you disagree with. It's my show and I'll decide the coverage we do here. In any event, okay, I I'm lad I got that off my I just want to repeat for in closing, you and I are on the same page.
Israeli PR has been abysmal. Why does the heavy-lifting of PR fall to us?
And I still have that credibility and I don't need lectures from my friends who are more pro-Israel than I am or who are just American Jewish people who are concerned about what's happening. I don't need lectures on my coverage. Okay? I'll call it like I see it. and you have no right to come on this show and demand a debate with me because I've said something you disagree with. It's my show and I'll decide the coverage we do here. In any event, okay,
you and I are on the same page. We want to see civilization win. And by the way, can I just say, why does the Israeli government not have a Caroline Levit? Why don't they do daily press conferences? Why are they not going to the sticks every single day and explaining, "No, this is actually what happened with the church thing. It was accidental. This one was fake. This one was real. Why are they not doing daily briefings about Gaza, about troop movements? Like, why is it that we have to constantly be the ones that kind of sort through all this? Messaging is abysmal. The PR is awful. And I I say this with a great degree of sadness, right? not bitterness a little bit because when you're trying to win an information war or propaganda war, you should be like, "Wow, Charlie Kirk and Megan Kelly are the ones that we should really like want to keep going." Some in the space have been wonderful. Rabbi Pesaki, I can name the list. Sigy Flicker, they've been wonderful. But a fair amount, and Megan, you would agree, have decided to resort into nastiness and almost as if they don't want us anymore. M and it's um it's it's it's certainly suicidal. Yeah, it's very short thinking. I mean, I I remain an advocate of of I a defender of Israel's right to defend itself in this. They are the victims. They are the ones who were attacked and the United States would be doing the same thing. And I stand by what I said about proportionality, too. Some of that's a war crime. It gets enforced around Israel only. Around Israel only. The double standard is ridiculous. They get held to a standard that no other country gets held to. Correct. And of course, and the propaganda war is real. I mean, every day, Time magazine just got caught in this ridiculous propaganda on its cover. Uh, and they use these so-called Palestinian journalists, which by the way is a red flag, that term in and of itself. You're going to be spoon fed propaganda. Not to mention what happened in the New York Times with that one child who was allegedly starving, but they were forced into admitting, oh, he had other problems that they chose not to hide. It happens every day. They Hamas is amazing at the propaganda which is part of Israel's problem but for better or for worse the Hamas is winning the propaganda war and you're right in part probably because they don't have a Caroline Levit because they don't fight like disinformation with actual uh representatives who will come out and set the record straight every day. People like you and I have been doing the lion share of making sure people understand what's true. So I I have very little tolerance for the lectures. Hardest place to do it. I'm with yougan. I'm with you. All right, we're going to take a break, come back with Charlie in 2 seconds. Don't go away.
Pro-Israel supporters refuse to allow Anti-Israel side to be represented at a Debate
Like I'm an American citizen. Yes, I want Israel to win. Yes, I'm a Christian. But like the some of the me and you saw you've seen how I've been treated, Megan. By some, not all, by some. No, it's very irritating. It's been so unfair. They were coming after you after a turning point for among other things that you had Dave Smith there. Dave Smith is allowed to criticize Israel. You had both sides. The Israeli side was not though. No, you're not allowed to. It's even worse than that. Again, I just want to repeat for the fifth time. I love Israel. I want Israel to win. But my moral character is now being put into question, Megan. Not my decisions, not like, hey, are you doing this? Is it smart or is it dumb?
Israel is losing its World Standing, Moral Reputation. As Trump said: It’s time to Wrap it up
Megyn: But what Israel is doing now is losing its standing with the rest of the world. It's starting to lose, too. Even with its closest friends, its moral reputation, its moral um high ground, and as Trump said a year ago, time to wrap it up.
The more you attack my moral character the more I'm going to double down. on some part of the population, you can scold them into silence, right?
If you make us enemies, you will lose, deflate two of your strongest advocates
when the hostile reaction is that now Megan and Charlie are enemies, (right)? Boy, I'll tell you like you're you're you're you're you're going to you're not going to I won't say lose, but you will weaken and just basically deflate two of your strongest advocates if that continues.
The more you tell me not to criticize Israel, the more likely I am to do it. Megan: You don’t own me.
I laugh because it's like I've been bullied by the best of them. The best. And it it didn't work and it's not going to work with them. Then the more you try to tell me I can't criticize Israel, the more likely I am to do it.
Charlie: (I'm the same way)
to focus on exactly what you're doing, right? Like what what are you doing that you're so defensive? You don't own me. I don't I don't take $1 of money from any Jewish affiliated group.
Footnotes
In many of these comments Megyn Kelly vocalizes a criticism or position, to which Charlie voices his agreement. I have not kept track of which statements Charlie explicitly confirmed and for which statements his agreement is implicit. I assume that the Pro-Israel supporters who Charlie and Megan were interacting with would not absolve Charlie for merely sitting by as Megyn said such “offensive” things, so long as Charlie withheld validation for a particular comment. Of special note: Charlie explicitly said: the more you attack our moral character, the actually the more we're going to double down
I imagine the idea that Megyn Kelly was elevating President Trump’s prior call to end its war with Gaza would be perceived as one of the more threatening things a “supporter” could say.
Q: When did President Trump call for Israel to "wrap it up", meaning wrap up its war in Gaza?
Mar 25, 2024 (public interview): Trump said Israel should “finish up” the Gaza war and “get this over with,” warning support was fading. PBS+2AP News+2
July 2024 (private message; reported Oct 30, 2024): He told Netanyahu he wanted Israel to “wrap up” the war by the time he took office if elected. The Times of Israel
May 20, 2025 (as president; sourced to White House officials): Axios reported Trump asked aides to tell Netanyahu he wants Israel to “wrap it up.” Axios
Karoline Leavitt is President Trump’s Press Secretary.
I would argue that such a press office would be problematic because much of what Israel is doing is indefensible and would not stand up to scrutiny. The more questions that are allowed the more the crack show in hasbara.
(assuming neither men’s phone is compromised) Privately, Charlie Kirk told Dave Smith agreed with most of what Smith said at the debate.
I wrote lyrics to a song about how charges of “Anti-Semitism” are used to shut down debate. I called it “Puttin’ on the RITZ”, based of the 1929 Broadway hit by Irving Berlin.
RITZ = Rhetorical Impunity for Toxic Zionism.
Usage: “There you go again, Puttin’ on the RITZ”
I’ve heard reports that Benjamin Netanyahu offered Charlie Kirk $150 million, but Kirk turned it down, preserving his independence.
The idea that young Republicans are being exposed to the idea that Israel is responsible for/affiliated with Jefferey Epstein and ~1000 victims can’t make Israel-supporters feel secure in their American support.